Richard Geoffroy

Seven with Signor Sake: Richard Geoffroy (Shiraiwa, Toyama) 

I’m asking seven questions to my favourite sake makers to hear their story and get their take on the centuries-old craft. 

Richard Geoffroy isn’t afraid to tackle monumental challenges or radically switch gears. Before he became the cellar master of the most famous champagne in the world, he was a medical doctor. Now, he is taking on the sake industry with IWA 5. This project is an exciting, albeit risky, start-up that allows him to draw on his extensive time in the wine industry while exploring and pushing the boundaries of the sake world.

This endeavour blossomed from his deep love of Japan and his ability to blend—not just sake, but people. He partnered with Ryuichiro Masuda, owner of Masuda Shuzo, and formed a powerful team, including veteran brewer Masato Yabuta (who spent two decades at one of the oldest breweries in Japan), designer Marc Newson for the bottle and label design, and renowned architect Kengo Kuma for the brewery design in the scenic hills of Toyama Prefecture. Through his blending of sake, people, and vast life experience, Richard Geoffroy aims to act as a much-needed bridge between Japan and the Western world.

Q1. What’s the attraction of sake for you after investing so much time in champagne?

I have more freedom, more latitude when making sake than making wine. Number one, there are more options, which means more combinations. And second, the regulations are not as strict and constraining as wine. I think wine is at a crossroads with appellations. Appellations have been making the status of iconic wines. And now it’s a handicap, overly restrictive. So many people in the West cannot understand that I’m here in Japan having more freedom, more space than my time in champagne and with Dom Pérignon. It’s against the current and the perception of Japan, but actually it’s very Japanese. Then, it’s the mental framework, possibly the cultural block. I realised that the Japanese are not utilising all the levels, all the options at their disposal. If IWA can only contribute to this, assemblage is a major move, it cracks such a new field of opportunities. I think we don’t realise how broad the scope and possibilities are. I’m learning as I walk, but the potential is huge.

“I have more freedom, more latitude when making sake than making wine.”

Pre-launch, pre-release of IWA, there was a buzz about us coming—not necessarily positive. There was doubt. What is Geoffroy doing? He should mind his own business. We love Geoffroy as the Dom Pérignon guy. COVID didn’t help, but we launched in May of 2020. And after three years, people have started to emulate it. There are so many new assemblages. And they call it “assemblage”—a French term we are bringing in. But it’s great. I’m not complaining. It makes us very happy. We want to be contributors. The sake industry screams for contributions. It’s a very friendly move. So assemblage is a new space. 

Sometimes I’m asked, “How come you moved from this established wine position to Japan, to the unknown, a startup and risk?” I could be retired now. But it’s out of love. Yes, it’s a business but we’re going to make it successful. But the prime motivation was the same way as you. I was listening to you and what you were telling me, and it’s somewhat reminiscent of my personal attraction to Japan. I started looking at sake, started drinking it, and thought maybe I could do something with it. It has been a gradual process.

Q2. You partnered with Ryuichiro Masuda of Masuizumi. Tell us how you made that connection.

I had been looking for the ideal partner for a long time and I couldn’t find one. It could have been part of an existing project or taking a project over. It could have been revamping and scaling a tiny one up. After one year of traveling around Japan with my train pass, I realised that I wasn't going to make it. The only way was to start from a clean slate. Better than twisting an existing situation to idolise the dream project. Still, I needed a partner, what I would call a “facilitator.” In retrospect, it was so right. I didn’t have anyone in the realm, in concrete. And I was voicing it to Kengo Kuma, who had been a friend for a long while. He told me there’s only one guy. It’s make or break. It’s Masuda. So we went on a weekend with Kengo, which was a privilege. Masuda-san is such a unique individual and his sense is progressive and modern. You would have to say “visionary.” So, he was the man. And he has been the facilitator of the project because starting up in Japan is not necessarily easy. Voilà. I’m not saying he’s hands on—he’s not. It’s not where he’s the most helpful. Instead, it’s the early stages, making it happen, establishing. 

“I had been looking for the ideal partner for a long time and I couldn’t find one… And I was voicing it to Kengo Kuma, who had been a friend for a long while. He told me there’s only one guy.”

In retrospect, there’s another thing I’m so happy with. We’ve been in Toyama all in relation to Masuda. But being in Toyama is such a great move because it’s not traditional nor conservative. It’s not Niigata. There was sufficient pressure not to add. There’s something progressive, entrepreneurial in Toyama. There’s that spirit. At the time, through Masuda, I had a great connection with Toyama’s mayor, who had been one of the leading figures in sustainability in Japan. It was so modern. Since then, Toyama is becoming more of a destination. The food, the nature. I was with Chef Suga yesterday and he was telling me how he was fascinated with some of the seafood from Toyama that you can’t get anywhere else. There’s something unique about the place. And it’s not Kanazawa. The city is not beautiful. It’s more the inner thing. I bet you that Toyama’s future is very bright. More and more people are visiting. At the moment, they cannot stay too long, as there’s no infrastructure to welcome them. But this will happen. We have the great feeling of being in the right place. And that Western Japan is the new thing. People are drawn to the West.

Q3. Who’s the typical drinker of IWA and could that change over time?

The first circle in Japan and Asia has been a circle of wine drinkers. Clearly, hopefully, when I say wine drinkers, I mean wine freaks. You can see in Hong Kong, Singapore, Taipei, collectors, big spenders. Their Burgundy’s, their top Champagnes, Dom Pérignon plenitudes, Krug. These people are great because they have the sensitivity, the education, the culture to appreciate IWA and to make it loud enough to their crowd. At the same time, we will have to expand outside of that large circle. We are not there yet, but hopefully soon. 

“These people are great because they have the sensitivity, the education, the culture to appreciate IWA and to make it loud enough to their crowd.”

The crossover between IWA and the world of wine is very clear. And my personal position is that I can bridge the two communities. At the moment, the wine community is very interested in sake because they may be getting tired of wine. When you have unlimited wealth, you can buy anything. You have been drinking your ’61 and ’82. But, these wines are running out. Pretty soon there won’t be any left. Creativity in wine is so limited compared to spirits. People start to develop frustrations with wine, so they’re exploring sake—amongst other things. The wine community is supposed to go to sake. But the sake community have no clue how to get to the wine community. There’s a gap. Myself, together with Charlie (co-founder) and IWA, we can. It’s where we come from. We are in both camps.

Q4. Dom Pérignon was a monk in the 17th century who advanced winemaking. And it was the monks of Nara who made great strides in sake brewing. Do you see any other similarities between wine and sake?

The two are fermented goods, and fermentation is a great step and act of civilisation. It’s transforming the perishable into the durable. Fermentation is a major progress in humankind, so voilà! Everything is built into the grapes to make wine. The sugars are already converted. You can ferment right away. The water is present and so are the microorganisms. However, rice is a stretch to make it into a pleasurable liquid. That resilience and trial and error is so Japanese. It’s in the DNA of Japan. It represents so much of Japan. The French couldn’t have come up with sake. It requires too much. In Japan, they were establishing the rules of fermentation ahead of Louis Pasteur. That says it all. But still, wine and sake have so much in common, the origin, an element of terroir, the man, fermentation, tradition, innovation, storytelling, food. 

“The two are fermented goods, and fermentation is a great step and act of civilisation. It’s transforming the perishable into the durable.”

Q5. There’s a lot of controversy whether we should be adopting wine terms for sake. One that comes to mind is terroir. Can it exist with sake?

I think it’s fair to say that rice varieties and growing districts are important, but not as much as grapes. It’s hard to weigh. It's often said the influence of grapes is in excess of 50%, while rice is 20%. Maybe less. And sometimes I’m a bit puzzled by people talking about rice terroir and at the same time polishing like hell with nothing left. Some people wanted to prove to me there were markers of terroir in the starch, but I’m a scientist. Starch is starch, I’m afraid. There’s no inclusion, when you go that far into the starch. In my view, the industry has been struggling so much for so many years. It’s trying many directions, including mimicking wine. Frankly, my recommendation is: don’t mimic wine. Wine has got so many things wrong. 

The only terroir I solely believe in is sake terroir. The kura, the man, the toji from the north, from the south—you give the same ingredients, yeast, koji, and they will end up with different sakes. The culture of the toji and the team, the water—great kuras are sitting on their own water, the indigenous microflora to the traditional techniques, and the layout. I strongly believe the disposition of the equipment and the process, including the organisation of work, has a major impact on the expression of the sake as well.

“The only terroir I solely believe in is sake terroir. The kura, the man, the toji from the north, from the south—you give the same ingredients, yeast, koji, and they will end up with different sakes.”

Q6. Sake consumption is in decline in Japan and is relatively unknown abroad. What’s needed to help the industry?

Sake is intimidating to new drinkers. If only it could be friendlier and closer. That’s a challenge. There’s something intimidating about Japan. This year I’ve been traveling extensively, and I don’t see many of the sake company representatives coming to the US. To me, the answer is: proximity. 

My view is that IWA is selling more than the sake. It brings an element of Japan outside of Japan. Many people are not going to Japan and never will, so I like the idea of Japan making the effort to reach out to them. 

I’m coming from the industry of luxury with LVMH. For a long time, the dogma of luxury was the distance. And now, people keep referring to the "brand experience,” “going to the origin.” People want to know, not the full extent, but more. I think it screams, "More proximity.”

Q7. Tell us about your experience with food and sake pairing in relation to wine.

I never realised as much as now that with wine pairing, the wine is above the food. And the point is to be sensibly above. If you are overly above, there is no pairing. Sensibly above is great. It’s emotional. But IWA is not really using that mechanism. It’s right at the level of the food. Our guests yesterday were telling us that they had this sense that IWA was extending the character of the food. We went very far with this. In France we are saying that the wine is above, and what is extending the food is the sauce. But in Japanese cuisine, there’s no sauce. I’m not saying that sake is the sauce. It’s the sense of extending laterally, intimately, at the level of the food. As a result, the chefs love sake and love IWA because it better respects their work. Many chefs are so suspicious of wine. There are a handful who are keen on wine (less than ten); all the others delegate to the sommelier and don’t want to be involved. And when creating their dishes, they are never thinking of wine at all. They are suspicious because they think that wine is going to alter their work. Sake is so chef’s-work friendly.  

For more information on IWA, visit their website www.iwa-sake.jp